ARM Backup/Settei book 2 translation/Interview
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『アルトネリコ2』の開発秘話が満載！ プロデューザー&ディレクターインタビュー
Fully loaded with the secret episodes of the development of [Ar tonelico 2]! Interview with the Producer and the Director
数多くの想いが集って生まれた『アルトネリコ』シリーズ。その想いの出発点となったディレクターの 土屋氏と、集った想いを世に送り出したプロデューザーの河内氏にお話をうかがった。
The [Ar tonelico] series was born out from the gathering of a great number of feelings. And here we have asked about what was the starting point for these feelings with the Director: Mr. Tsuchiya, and with the one that made these feelings reach the world: Mr. Kawauchi.
※1 アルポタール Ar Portal
『1』が発売されてから1年以上経 過している今も、毎週更新されて いる『アルトネリコ』総合ファンサ イト。オリジナルのレーヴァテイ ルと暮らせるブログパーツ「さぽ ている」の無料配布や、読者投稿 にキャラクターが答える「トウコウ スフィア」などがある。
This is the comprehensive fansite for [Ar tonelico] that has been undergoing during a weekly renewal since one year after [1] was released. It freely distributes original Reyvateils called [Supporteil] to live as blogparts for anyone that solicits them, and the readers can submit their own contributions, which then will be answered by the characters of the game in a section called the [Toukousphere].
※2 きゅっきゅっ Kyuu Kyuu
『1』のヒロイン、シュレリアの口グセ。アルポータルの人気連載、「トウコウス フィア」内のコーナー「シュレリア様のテクニカルサービスセンター」などでシメのセリフな どに登場。する。ほかにも「テクニカりましょう」などのコーナー発流行(？)を生んだ。現在も「シュ レリア様とフレリア様とジャクリのテクニカルサービスセンター」として好評連載中。
This is a verbal tic that one of the heroines of "1", Shurelia, has. It's one of the lines that makes the most appearance in one of the sections of the [Toukousphere], called the [Lady Shurelia's Technical Service Center]. Besides, this also was the place where popular phrases like [let's technicalize] were coined. Even now, it's a very popular section, under the name of [Lady Shurelia's, Lady Frelia's and Jakuri's Technical Service Center].
続編の手ごたえ
Response to the Sequel
ー発売から1ヶ月ほど経ったわけですが、反響 や手ごたえはいかがですか。
It has been around one month since the game was released. How was it received?
河内:『1』(前作『アルトネリコ』。以下『1』と表 記)のファンの皆様には、受け入れていただけ たのでは......と思っています。今回はいろいろ な新要素が入っているわけですが、その新しい 部分への好意的な反響をいただけましたので。 もちろん、要望もいただいていますし、反省点 もありますが、全体的には楽しんでいたけたん じゃないかなと思います。
Kawauchi: We think... that all of the fans of "1" (the previous Ar tonelico, which will be referenced as "1" from this point onwards) have accepted it very well. While we have added many new elements in this occasion, the reception of these new elements was very favorable. Of course, we have received some requests, and while we had many thing we had to reconsider, I don't think there was anyone who didn't enjoy the game in its entirety.
ー『2』から初めてプレイするユーザーの反響 の方はいかがでしょう。
How were the reactions for the users that started by playing "2" only?
河内:嬉しいことに、『2』から始めて、『1』もやって みたっていう声をたくさんいただいてます。それと、 予想より女性にも遊んでもらえたみたいですね。 これからも、いろんな層の方に興味を持っても らえるようにするのが大きな目標です。
Kawauchi: I am glad to say that there many that, after playing through "2", told that they also wanted to try playing "1". And even so, it seems that more girls played it than what we had expected. From now on, we will be marking for ourselves a larger target when it comes to the audience we will be catering to.
ー反省材料というのはどんな部分ですか。
What do you mean by that there were various things you had to reconsider?
河内:いろんなシステムをたっぷり詰め込んだこ とで、もっと手軽に楽しみたい人にとっては、複 雑だったのかもしれません。「やりこむほどに味 が出る」ものを目指していましたから、もっと濃い 部分まで楽しんでもらえるように、盛り上げてい きたいですね。
Kawauchi: To the people that wanted to have fun in a simpler way, it might have been somewhat complicated that we crammed so many varied systems into the game. We aimed to [make it as interesting as the number of elements we had], and because of it, while it's possible to have a lot of fun because of how deep these systems are, they have stacked up upon each other.
土屋:今回は『1』のときよりも、冒険してる部分 が多いんです。前作もずいぶんと冒険したと思 ってるんですけどね。ネタをふんだんに入れてる ってのもありますが(笑)。それよりも、ヒロイン をしっかりと描写しようとしたことが、大きなチャ レンジでした。深く掘り下げて、人間としてのい い部分悪い部分をすべて表現してみたっていう のは、怖さがありましたね。特に瑠珈は、ユーザ ーさんに引かれちゃうかもしれないほど、キャラク ターを作りこんでいます。だからこそ、瑠珈がす ごく好きだって言ってくれる方がいるんだとは思 いますが、逆に受け入れらないって声もたくさん 聞いています。私のなかでは、そういう賛否両論 がすべて、自分がやろうとしたことへの反響だと 思っています。自分では、やろうとしたことを最後 までやり遂げた、と思って出しています。だから、 今回は全部やりきったなって思ってますね。
Tsuchiya: This time, the adventures we took are more numerous than what they were in the times of "1". And that's saying a lot, considering that in the previous game we also took on a relatively large number of adventures, including these in which we put a large number of jokes (*laughs*). More importantly, we intended to deepen the depiction of the hardships that the heroines had to go through, though that was quite a great challenge. Delving deeply into the matter, we had to attempt representing all of the good and evil parts that we have as humans, and that was quite terrifying to do. Especially in Luca's case, which, despite being possibly the most criticized character by the users, she is the most complex character we have created. For that reason, I thought that she could have been the character that was liked the most, but it turns out that the reception to her ended being the complete opposite of what I expected. In my mind, I had already weighted the pros and cons of doing that, so I think that these reactions might have been directed to me. As for me, I think I might have accomplished in the end what I was trying to do. That is why I think that this time I did everything the best I could.
河内:やりこんでくれている人が、本当に細かい ところまでよく気づいてくれるんですよ。これが すごく嬉しいですね。
Kawauchi: And it seems that some of the people have noticed how truly detailed some things are. These things really make me happy.
土屋:ええ、本当に。ユーザーさんからのアンケ ートでも、そういう、瑠珈の人間臭い部分をあえ て出した意図を、察してくれてるなって感じる んです。もちろん見ててつらいって部分もたく さんあったと思うんですけど、それを全部受け 入れてもらえて、「伝わったよ」っていう声が届 くっていうのがすごい嬉しいんですよね。もちろ ん「こうじゃないだろう」っていう声もたくさんい ただくんですよ。でもユーザーさんの声って、や ろうとしたことをわかったうえで、ちゃんと声を届 けてくれてるんです。単につまんないとか、面白 くないとか、そういう叩き方じゃなくて、「こうだっ たらもっと良かったのに」っていう声を聞かせて くれる。こっち側が真剣に伝えたかったことに 対して、真摯に応えてくれてるっていうのを感じ ています。すごく励みになりますね。
Tsuchiya: Yes, it's true. Even in the Enquete results we have received from the users, we saw some responses like these, which shows they were able to feel some sympathy for the human qualities we aimed Luca to express. Of course, while there were some painful parts to go through with her, they still accepted them, and in the end many that said that [it was conveyed], meaning that they managed to grasp what I intended to express with her, and that made me very happy. Of course, there were many others that said that [you didn't show anything special with her]. However, since at least some of the users could understand the lessons I wanted to give with her, it means that at least they reached them. No matter if it was interesting or boring to them, since that can't be set in stone, but I want them to hear when I say that [it would be much better if you could understand that]. As for what I wanted to convey in all honesty with her character, it would be how you would feel if you acted honestly towards other people. That is what turned into my greatest stimulus.
ユーザーと一緒にいたい
We Want to be with the Users
ーアルポータル(※1)がずっと更新されて いるのがすごいですね。常連さんも多いか と思いますが。
It's amazing that you are always conducting renewals in the Ar Portal. It must attract a lot of visitors, right?
土屋:あれは長くなってきましたけど、今も昔も、 やってることはずっと変わらないんですよ。『アルト ネリコ』が好きになってくれた人と、ずっと一緒に いようっていうコンセプトです。だから、定常更 新を絶対に欠けさないって決めてるんです。ちゃ んとした、いいものを配信していくっていうのは、 安心感につながると思うんですよ。作り手側が 「いつもちゃんと『アルトネリコ』のことを考えてい ます、一緒にいますよ」という姿勢をしっかり見 せることが大切なだと考えています。それがユーザ ーさんにとっての信頼感になると思ってますし、 わたしはこの世界っていうものを、皆さんに提供 して、そこに心地よくいてほしいんです。アルポ ータルっていうのは、その手段のひとつとしてや っていることですから、これからも大切なにしてい きたいと思います。
Tsuchiya: It has gotten longer with the passing of time, but even if it's now, or in the past, it isn't any different in the fact that we have been doing our best in renewing it. It started under the concept that we wanted to be always together with the people that ended loving [Ar tonelico]. That is why we decided that we will never interrupt the regular renewals. We also thought that it would give a sense of security if we gave gifts to the visitors too. As the creator of the series, that attitude of [always wanting to be thinking with others about "Ar tonelico", and be with them], is what I consider the most important element. That is why I think that it has become a source of trust for the users, and why I want it to give a nice feel to them, which is why I am offering to them everything about this world. Because the Ar Portal was one of the methods I devised to make that possible, I want to continue doing work on it as a very valuable site from now on.
河内:アルポータルがあることで、『1』で生まれ たキャラクターが、まだまだ育っていると思うんで すよ。続けてきたことで、アルポータルから生ま れた設定だとか、キャラクターの魅力みたいなも のが出てきているというか。「きゅっきゅっ」(※2) とかね(笑)。あれなんて、『1』で出てきたフレー ズですけど、アルポータルで広がったいい例だ と思うんです。ユーザーさんが投稿で使ってくれ たり、他のキャラクターが真似したりして、面白 い広がり方になりましたよね。
Kawauchi: I think that is because of the Ar Portal that the characters in "1" could receive even more development. While they were already set in the game, away from the site, the Ar Portal also allowed to continue trying to show off the charm of these characters. For example, how about [kyuu kyuu]? (*laughs*). While that was a phrase that first appeared in "1", I think it's a good example because of how it has spread in the Ar Portal. Our users often utilize it in their submissions, and the other characters imitate it too, so don't you think it has become an interesting way of it spreading?
土屋:はは、あれは流行りましたね。
Tsuchiya: Haha, it has become quite popular, huh?
河内:キャラクターが、まだ成長してるんですよ。 影が薄かった連中が徒党を組んできて、トウコ ウスフィアで自己主張してみたりとか。こういうフ ォローっていうのかな、発売後の展開があるの って、楽しいと思うんですよね。ゲームをクリアし て終わり、じゃなくて、楽しみが続くと思うんです よ。本当は、ゲームとしてリリースした『アルトネ リコ』は、クリアすれば作品としては完結してるわ けですよね。でも、こういう形でずっとキャラクタ ーが生き生きとしていれば、ずっと楽しんでいら れると思うんです。
Kawauchi: The characters are still growing. The ones that appeared the less have formed their own faction, and they seem to be trying to self-assert themselves in the Toukousphere. This might be a weird way of continuing things, but I think that such a development after the release of the game is very fun. All because we think that it doesn't end after you have cleared the game, since you can continue having fun with its characters and setting. Actually, as a released game, [Ar tonelico] would have accomplished its function as a product after you have finished it, no? But I think that if we do it this way, the characters can continue living for a long time, allowing the users to continue having fun for much longer.
土屋:アルポタールはいつも、過去作品じゃな い『アルトネリコ』を提供する場でありたいんです よね。ゲームって、結局は一発モノじゃないです
Tsuchiya: The Ar Portal was offered to our users as something that continues offering [Ar tonelico] to them in a way in which it doesn't grow old, right? After all, as a game, it has to end at some point.
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か。でも、わたしがユーザーだったときがそうだ ったんですが、気にいったゲームや小説って、 その後もずっと好きでいられるんですよね。関 連商品を楽しみにしたり、情報を探したりして。 インターネットがなかった時代だったから、本屋 さんやCD屋さんを何軒も回ったりして。いつも 「なにか新しいものがあったらいいな」って思っ てたんですけど、実際問題として、そんなにお金 もないわけですよ。もしくは、あっても時間が経 ってると買えなかったりするわけです。それが、 WEBの形なら、できるじゃないですか。ゲーム のことをもっと知りたいって言ってくれたユーザ ーさんと、近い距離を保っておける。ささやか な更新ではありますけど、続けてきたことに意 味があると思っています。
However, while at the time I did it in that way for the users we had, I noticed that no matter if it was after finishing the game or reading the novels, I could continue making things so they could continue having fun for a much longer time. In that way, they can continue looking forward to any new material we put out, and continue searching for information on it. Since in the times where the internet didn't exist yet, they would have had to continue going and coming back to the bookstores and CD shops many times. They would have thought, [it would be nice to see more new goods about this now], but they would have had as a practical problem the lack of money. Otherwise, they wouldn't have bought anything, no matter how much time passed. So then I thought, if we announced these things via the Web, wouldn't they be able to buy things in an easier way? I have heard from many users that they want to know everything they can about the game, and this has allowed me to close the gaps we had between each other. While these renewals have been very meager, I still intend to continue doing them.
ーゲームが古くならないですよね。クリアした あとに、エピローグがずっと続いてるみたいな 感じがして。
So, it seems to be a game that won't ever grow stale, right? It feels as if the epilogue after clearing the game could go on forever.
河内:ゲームの発売後に、時間が経ってからプ レイはじめたユーザーさんにも楽しんでもらえ ると思います。
Kawauchi: After the game was released, we thought that we wanted that the users who started playing the game to continue having fun, no matter how much time passed.
土屋:反響があるおかげで、「楽しんでもらえて る」っていう、実感があるんですよね。やってて よかったなってよく思います。ただ、ちょっと残 念だなって思うのが、こういったWEBコンテン ツは、更新がアクティブなほど記事が過去のも のになりやすい。「天覇新聞(※3)」など過去の コンテンツにもたくさんあるんだけど、なかなか さかのぼって読み返してもらえないんです。そう いうのが、ちょっと寂しくって。いつか、ちゃんと 再編集して、また楽しめる形になれるといいん ですが。過去の記事だからは今もう時代遅れ の話、というわけでもありませんからね。だから、 更新したばかりの記事以外にも、目を向けても らえたら嬉しいなといつも思っています。設定 資料が好きな方なら、きっと楽しんでもらえるよ うな設定ネタもいろいろありますよ。
Tsuchiya: Thanks to the reactions we have received, our true feelings are that [you all can continue to have fun]. I am very glad that we have done this. Still, I have some things I regret, such as it being composed of Web contents, and being renewed constantly, which makes some of the articles grow old too quickly. Many contents, such as the [Tenba News] section, have become things of the past, which makes them almost impossible to read again. These are things that feel very sad. Someday, we will be reorganizing everything in a better way, so they can become once again ways in which you can have fun. Because these are articles from the past this might be talking in an old-fashioned way, but I don't think so. Because of that, I always think about ways in which I could try setting goals to making all of the users happy, aside from the renewal of the articles. If the setting materials are one of these ways that I can utilize to accomplish that, then I will do my best so you can have fun with all of them.
世界観と融合した楽曲を
On how the Music is Tied to the World Setting
ー続いて、シリーズの心臓部分であるヒュム ノスについてお聞かせください。
Continuing, could you please tell us about the Hymmnos songs, which are the heart itself of the series?
土屋:『2』になって、一番前作からステッ プアップしたいと思ってたのが、楽曲と世 界観のさらなる融合です。『アルトネリコ』 の曲っていうのは、まず想いがあって、そ れを詩にしている(※4)わけですけど、 もちろん『1』でもクロニクルキーなどでそ ういう部分を描いたつもりではいますが、 もっと掘り下げて表現したかったんですね。 今回目指したのは、物語のなかで、ヒュム ノスを謳うときの感情とか、立場とか、そ ういうもの。「ヒロインと密接に関わってい るヒュムノス」っていうのを目指したんで す。詩を、ただ世界に影響を与える「魔法」 みたいなものとして扱うんじゃなくて、「想 いをこめて謳っているから力になるんだ」 っていうことをやりたかったんです。いい 意味でも、悪い意味でも。
Tsuchiya: When it came the time for us to make "2", I thought I had to take a pair of steps up in comparison to the previous game, and fuse even more the music with the world setting. The Songs of [Ar tonelico] themselves are basically feelings turned into Songs, and while of course I intended to achieve that same effect in "1" with songs such as Chronicle Key, I delved even further into their representation in the game. What I aimed for this time, was make the songs, while thinking what kind of feelings would these Hymmnos contain, and in which kind of situation in the story they would be used. I wanted that these songs ended being [Hymmnos very closely related to the heroines]. Still, I didn't want the songs to be treated simply as [magic] that can affect the world, since I made them to be [Songs containing feelings that can become power as they are sung]. That has both good and bad connotations.
ー詩を作るのに、どれくらいの期間がか かるものなんですか？
How much time did it took you to create the Songs?
土屋:難しいですね......。結局、詩ってい うのは作曲している期間がすべてではない ので。想いを紡ぐ部分に時間がかかるもの ですから。プロットがあって、そこから詩 を抽出して、過去を作って、想いを作って ......っていうプロセスがあるんです。そう やって形になってからも、その詩を謳って いるキャラクターの心情や、状況を作って、 やっと作曲に入るんです。今回は、そうい う部分を歌い手さんにすべて伝えてから謳 ってもらってるんです。本当に、キャラク ターの心情になってもらおうと。これはも う、最初の企画書の時点から決まってたこ となんですよ。そうすることによって、詩 のなかに、本当のキャラクターの心情が乗 るんじゃないかって思っています。『1』の ときは、もっとストレートに、キャラクター設定 とシナリオを説明して、こういう心情をで謳って くださいっていう依頼だったんですね。『2』の 場合は、その心情になった背景を知ってもら って、「こういうシチュエーションで、こういう気 持ちで謳ってほしいんですが、どうですか」って いう相談から始めています。違いをわかりや すく説明すると、『1』のオーダーが「こういうキ ャラでよろしく！」という発注をしていたのに対 し、『2』では「一緒にキャラを創っていこう！」 という提案をした、という感じです。「わたしは こういう意図で脚本を書いたんだけど、これ で、感情移入ができますか」という部分から ぶつけさせてもらって。これで打ち合わせをす ると、歌い手さんから突っ込みが入ることも もちろんあります。「キャラクターのそれまでの 経緯を考えたら、この立場でこの詩を謳うな らその感情じゃないでしょ」っていう指摘とか ね。たとえば、「詩を謳うときに、こんな感情 じゃキレイになんて謳えませんよ」なんて突っ 込まれたりね。
Tsuchiya: It's difficult... After all, I didn't spend all of the time I worked in the project working only in the composition of the songs. What it took the most time to me was creating the feelings for them. We already had the plot finished, so now I had to draw the Songs out from it, creating a past, and feelings for them... that was the process that creating them involved. Because that was the way we use for creating the songs, we had to create the feelings and circumstances for the characters who would sing them, and add them into the composition of the Song. This time around, I entrusted the entirety of that part to the singers, in addition to singing the Songs. Actually, I ended conveying to them the feelings of the characters, and this was one step of the project that was established since its very beginning. Because of that, I don't think that there is any way in which the true feelings of the characters aren't contained at all in these Songs. When we made "1", it was much more straightforward: I explained to the singers the setting of the characters and the scenario, and in that way, I entrusted to them the singing of their feelings. In the case of "2", I taught them about the feelings that became the background for the game, beginning with this discussion [Under this situation, and with these feelings I want you to feel, how you would sing them?] With this explanation, it's easy to see the differences, since in "1" the orders I gave them were [I leave the characters in this way to you all!], while in contrast, in "2" I proposed to them [let us create the characters together!], which is the feeling they gave. [I might have written the scenario with this design, but in this way, can we empathize with each other?], that was the part where we began colliding into each other. With this, we began holding meetings, and of course, I ended giving a very deep input to the singers, as well. [If you think about the positions in which the characters are so deeply, then you shouldn't be able to sing the Song with these feelings if you were in their same position?], that is what I pointed out, no? For example, [When you the Song, don't sing it with any kind pure feelings, like this], such are the kind of inputs I gave them.
河内:開発期間から考えると、詩にかけて る時間っていうのが、ものすごく長いんで すよ。ほかのことともちろん並行ではある んですけども、普通のゲーム制作じゃ考え られない時間と手間をかけて、詩に時間を 割いてるんです。
Kawauchi: Since we were developing the game I thought that the time we had dedicated to making the Songs was pretty long. Of course, we were working in other things in parallel in the meantime, but in the creation of a normal game, it would never be thought to employ so much time and effort into the music.
土屋:こういうやりかたって、すごく期間がかかっ ちゃうんですよ。説明するのも大変だし、説明さ れた側だって、消化するのが大変なだと思うんで す。作曲に入るまでがまず大変なわけですから、 やりとりの回数もすごく増えますし。ただ、そうい うふうにやることによって、詩がきちんと世界と 同化できるんじゃないかって思ってるんです。
Tsuchiya: And by doing it like this, it took a surprising amount of time. The explanations were the hardest part, since I was thinking they would need a longer time to digest the information. It means that until we could put them into the composition of the songs it was pretty hard, but that also allowed us to interact with the singers many times. Still, because we did it like that, I think that we were able to neatly assimilate the Songs into the world.
株式会社バンプレスト コンシューマーディビジョン
Banpresto Ltd. Consumer Division
プロデューザー 河内厚典 Producer: Kawauchi Atsunori
『アルトネリコ』シリーズの総合プロデューザ ー。他にも『クレヨンしんちゃん』シリーズ など手をかける。
The main producer of the [Ar tonelico] series. He has among his other works the [Crayon Shin-chan] series.
株式会社ガスト サウンドクリエイター・セクションチーフ
Gust Ltd. Sound Creation Section Chief
ディレクター 土屋暁 Director: Tsuchiya Akira
本シリーズの生みの親。本職はサウンドク リエイターだが、本シリーズでは企画やス トーリーなど開発全船の指揮を執る。
The father of the series itself. His main occupation is the creation of music, but he has the total command when it comes to every aspect of developing the projects and stories related to the series.
※3 天覇新聞 Tenba News
アルポータル内の1コーナー。土屋氏が関 発秘話や設定情報をユーザーに届ける、設 定資料好きにはたまらないコンテンツ。 『アルトネリコ2』の発売を機に、「テレモ のある広場」としてリニューアルされた。
One of the corners in the Ar Portal. Mr. Tsuchiya has used this section to report to the users many secret episodes related to the development and setting information of the game, and it has many contents loved by those that like to read about the setting materials of the game. When the release of [Ar tonelico 2] came near, it was renewed into the [Telemo Plaza].
※4 想いを詩にする Turning the Feelings into Songs
『アルトネリコ』シリーズのヒュムノスは、まず土屋氏がアーテ ィストに「この詩の想い(P. 126以降を参照)」と解説文を手 渡し、アーティストたちがそこから詩を紡ぎだす、という手法 をとっている。作中のヒュムネクリスタルとレーヴァテイルの 関係と、まったく同様の手法から楽曲が作られているわけだ。
The Hymmnos of the [Ar tonelico] series were created by the following method: they started as stories that Mr. Tsuchiya personally explained to the artists, called [The Feelings of This Song (details on P. 126 onwards), and then, the artists created their own Songs from them. This is the same method that was used in the game to create the Songs by the Reyvateils, which is the relationship they have with the Hymn Crystals.
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※5 主要スタッフ陣は『1』から継続 Members of the Main Staff that Continued from "1"
登場するキャラクター陣は一新されている が、ヒュムノスの歌い手である志方あきこ、 霜月はるか、みとせのりこ、石橋優子の4人 は継続起用。また、キャラクターデザイン を担当する凪良氏も前作からの参加。デ ザインワークをこなしつつ、キャラクター 設定にも参加している。
While the cast of characters that appeared in this occasion are completely different from the ones in the previous game, the Hymmnos singers that were present in it: Shikata Akiko, Shimotsuki Haruka, Mitose Noriko, and Ishibashi Yuuko, all participated again in this game. Also, Mr. Nagi, who was in charge of the character designs in the previous game, returned too to design the characters of this game. And thanks to his experience in designing work, he also participated in the creation and setting of said characters.
※6 ヒュムノスミュージカル Hymmnos Musical
土屋氏による世界観監修のもと、外伝的 なエピソードをミュージカル仕立てで構 成したCD。ドラマCDとは別のアプロー チで作品世界を広げた。「クレア～そよ かぜの約束～」と「スピカ～心が紡ぐ贈りも の～」の2枚がリリースされた。
These are CDs that were prepared as Musicals to tell some side stories of the Ar tonelico characters, which were the idea of the world setting supervisor of Ar tonelico: Mr. Tsuchiya. They were made in an attempt to expand the world of the game, though they took an approach different from the Drama CDs. There were two volumes released: [Claire ~Promise of the Breeze~], and [Spica ~A Heart-Crafted Present~].
ーそういう仕事に応えくれた歌い手さんが いた、っていうのも、すごいことですよね。
Having demanded so much from the singers, and they were able to fulfill these expectations seems like something amazing, isn't it?
土屋:本当にそうですね。私が特に歌い手さん に求めていたのは、本当に気持ちをこめて謳っ てほしいっていう部分なんです。だから、『1』で最 初にオファーをするときにも、まず世界観につ いて説明させていただきました。そうやって、こ のゲームでの詩がどんなものなのかを掴んで いただいて、そのうえで世界を好きになってくれ た人を集めてきました。歌い手さんもそうだし、 キャラクターデザインの凪良さんもそうです。背 景デザインナーさんなんかもそうなんですよ。もち ろん、仕事ではあるんですけど、一緒にやって いた楽しいねって言い合える人を探してきてる んです。だから、本当は最初は契約や納期の 話をしなければならないのですが、いつもそれ よりも夢を語るのが先になってしまって(笑)。 そういうお願いで付き合ってくださった歌い手 さんたちだから、ものすごく真剣にやりとりさせ てもらってます。一緒に世界を作っていけた。 本当に感謝しています。
Tsuchiya: It truly is. The part I especially sought from the singers was that I wanted them to truly put their feelings into their singing. That was why, when I offered them to participate in "1", I started by explaining to them the world setting. By doing so, we were able to somehow condensate the essence of the game itself into these songs, and moreover, we were able of gathering a great number of people that ended loving that world. The same can be said for the singers, for Nagi-san, who worked in the character designs; and also, for the scenery designer. Of course, each of us had his or her own role in this, but what I sought with this was working with a team that knew also how to have fun, and that was open to exchanging opinions frequently.That is why, while we didn't have other choice than to talk about contracts and appointments, I always started first by talking about the things I dreamed about (*laughs*). In that way I met and associated with each of the singers, and in exchange, I got back their diligent and honest disposition to work in this project. Thus we managed to create this world together, so for that, I am truly grateful to them.
河内:今回はもう、早い段階から『1』の皆さん (※5)に絶対お願いしようっていうのがありまし たね。『1』では手探りだった部分も多かったん ですが、『1』という段階を経て、ユーザーさんに どう伝わったかっていうのを、きっと感じてもらえ たと思うんです。
Kawauchi: And this time, it seems that we had to do everything we could to ask again to everyone (*5) who worked in "1" as its very first step, no? While there were many parts in which we were fumbling around in "1", it's a phase we have gotten over already, and that is something we wanted to convey to our users. That is undoubtedly what we wanted them to feel.
土屋:そうですね。本当にいいものが仕上がっ たと思うんですよ。でも、変な言い方ですけど、 高い評価をいただいたからって、安売りをする つもりはありません。ヒュムノスを好きにな ってくれた方が、もっと目一杯聴きたいから CDを買ってくれる。でも、売られるからって、ぽん ぽん作るようなことはしたくない。「ヒュムノスコ ンサート」というCDは、あの世界があって、想 いがあって過去があって始めて成立するもので すから。そういうのを大事にしていきたいんです よ。いつも、そういうものが完全にそろっていて、 しっかりしたクオリティを維持して、ユーザーさん が安心して楽しんでもらえる世界を提供してい きたい。前作では関連商品で、「ヒュムノスミュ ージカル」(※6)っていうのをやったんですけど、 あれも、ヒュムノスを語る以上は正史としてエピ ソードを用意しています。本当に歴史上で歌わ れたものなので、背景をもった作品なんですね。 そうやって作っていますから、責任を持って、ゲ ームとして発表するのと同じだけの気合いを入 れて監修しました。作品としての重みをきちん と持っているんです。そういうものしかやりたく ないっていうのがありますから。
Tsuchiya: Yes. I think the better parts of it were the finishing touches. However, and even if it might be a weird way of saying it, and since we value it so much, it doesn't mean that we were going to sell it as a bargain product. The ones that liked the Hymmnos songs surely would do everything they could to buy the CDs, and since they were going to invest their money into them, I wouldn't even try to make and sell a second-rate product. That is why we started creating the [Hymmnos Concert] CDs in such a way, which contain that world, its feelings, and its past. Because of these factors, we tried to preserve the best quality standard we could, and offered to the users a world where they can have fun in peace. Among the related merchandise of the previous game, we also made some CDs called the [Hymmnos Musicals] (*6), but beyond simply speaking in Hymmnos, we intended them to be episodes written as authorized works. As works in which truly historical songs are sung, they are works that include their own circumstances. And since we made them to be like that, I supervised them with the same enthusiasm I had when the game was released. That is the importance they have as related merchandise. That is why I want to continue working in this series as much as I can.
I.P.D.100人について
About the 100 IPDs
ーI.P.D.コレクションが100人というのに驚き ました。作るのが大変だったのでは。
We were very surprised to see that the IPD collection truly consisted of 100 people. It must have been hard to make this system.
土屋:最初、1000人だったんですよね(笑)。み んなの想いを表現しようっていうのがコンセプト ですから。大陸を紡ぐほどなんだから、オーバー なくらいがいいと思ってたんですよ。「100人なん かじゃ、そのへんの人が集まったら歌えちゃうよ。 1000人くらいじゃないと、みんなの想いって感じ じゃないよ」という感じで。説得力が欲しいん ですよ。まあ、現実的に無理だったわけですが (笑)。一般的なRPGって、1回クリアするまで の戦闘回数が300回くらいになるんですよね。 大作でもそれくらいのものがほとんどなんです。 そう考えると、大作3回クリアするよりもっと戦闘 しないといけないじゃないですか。
Tsuchiya: Initially, it was going to be 1000 people (laughs), because it had as its concept the representation of the feelings of everyone in the world. Because they were going to make something as grand as making a land, I didn't think that would have been an exaggeration. I had a feeling that [if 100 people gathered, they would sing together. And if 1000 people did so, they would be able to feel the emotions of everyone]. I really needed persuasion power to do it. However, it was impossible to put in practice (*laughs*). As a normal RPG, it would have been necessary to fight over 300 battles just to clear the game. It almost seemed epic to attempt something like that... That is what I thought, but then I asked myself, it would be still fun to clear that same epicness more than three times?
河内:ほんとに一部の人だけが喜ぶコンテンツ になっちゃうよね(笑)。
Kawauchi: It would have become a kind of content that not many people would have enjoyed (*laughs*).
土屋:誰でも、お手軽に楽しめるコレクション 要素にもしたかったんですよね。そこそこ集め ただけでも楽しい感じの。でも、コレクション 要素って、やっぱり形がないと集めたがらない じゃないですか。だから、かわいい女の子だっ たらいいかな、みんな顔や設定が違ったら集め たくなるかなって考えて、ああいう形になったん です。レプレキアは想いを集めることを表現し たかったわけですから、そういう設定的な部分 とも相性がいいですし。こういうシステムを思 いつく前は、1万人でやりたかったんですよ。も ちろん全然違う形で、ですけど。最初はとにか く「何人と一緒に歌っているか」っていうのが伝 わる、あの画面が最初に思いついたんです。 一緒に戦っている感覚を出したくて。だから、 本当はレプレキアって、想いをひとつにする人 数が多いほどいいんですよ。日本列島規模の 大地を紡ぐなら1億人で歌えばOKっていう感 覚で。キャラクターに関しては、レアなグラフィ ックを用意したり、性格で個性を出したりって、 がんばってやってます。おかげですごい子がた くさん生まれましたが(笑)。
Tsuchiya: Because everyone enjoys collecting elements in an easy way, right?. It feels more fun the more you could complete the collection. However, wouldn't it be possible to make these collectibles from a formless pleasure into something more rewarding? For that reason, I wondered if it wouldn't be okay to put girls as collectibles, and after thinking we would have different faces and settings to each one of them, it would be fun to gather them, which ended becoming the final form of this system. And since Replekia was created to be an expression of the union of feelings, it just seemed appropriate to add that collection as a part of its setting. Before we had fully developed this system, I would have wanted to put a million of people, but naturally, that would have been impossible. However, I still managed to convey the feeling of [Everyone singing together], and that is the impression that came to my mind from the start of this project. So as you can imagine, Replekia truly is something that can turn the feelings of a huge number of people into one. I felt that if they were going to create a land that had the same size as all the Japanese islands combined into one, it would be necessary for a 100,000,000 of people to sing in unison. In relation to the characters, we did our best in preparing some rare graphics for them, so they would display their own unique personality. Thanks to that it's that this great number of girls was created (*laughs*).
新システムの数々
The Many New Systems
ー今回、大幅にシステムが更新されましたね。 ガードが完璧ならあらゆるダメージが0だとか。
For this game, you did a large-scale renewal for the game systems, huh? How about the fact that now performing perfect guards completely nullifies damage?
土屋:前作より、「自分の力で護ってる」って感じ を強調したかったんです。ただ護るっていうコマ ンドだと、ちょっと淡白かなって思ったので。ピン チの場面で、レーヴァテイルを護りきったぞって いう感覚が欲しかったんですよ。アクション要素 が入ると、これが原因で離れていく人が出てき てリスキーかもしれないな、とは思ったんですけ どね。でも根木としては、やっぱり主人公とヒロ インの関係を、戦闘でも表現したいっていうの がありましたから。
Tsuchiya: We wanted to reinforce the feeling of [I'll protect you with my own power] from the previous game. Since the guarding was done by simply selecting commands, I thought that was a somewhat plain way of doing it. I wanted everyone to feel the sensation of protecting a Reyvateil during a critical situation. There might have been some people that thought we deviated too much from the original by adding the action elements, but at its root, it was done so we could reinforce the expression of how the main character and the heroines interact with each other, even in the battles.
ーお風呂システムは話題になりましたね。
And it seems that the bathtub system has become quite a popular topic, no?
土屋:前作のインストールシステムは、やらなくて もまあいいか、といくくらいの内容だったのがち ょっと反省点だったんです。それで見直そうと思 ったんですけど、どうせ変えるなら、ユーザーさん が面白がってくれるものがいいな、と。あとまあ、 きっとネタも期待されてると思いましたし(笑)。 でも、なかなかアイデアが出ないわけですよ。
Tsuchiya: It was originated from the reflections I had about how the contents of the previous game would have been expressed if the Install System didn't exist back then. And while then I thought about looking at it again, I also thought that if we changed it, it could become even more interesting to the users. I thought that I could expect to include many more jokes in there (*laughs*), but in the end, many of the ideas didn't make it to the final product.
打ち合わせも難航しちゃって、だんだん笑いを 取る方向に行きまして(笑)。そのうち、もうこう なったら、ヒロイン同士でお風呂入るかー な んて話が出てきて、みんなで笑い飛ばしてたわ けです。で、ひとしきり笑ったあと、1時間後くら いにはこのシステムの骨格ができていた、と ......(笑)。ちょっと真面目な話になると、『2』の 世界では、レーヴァテイルって大事にされてる んですね。きちんと認知されているし、共存も してるし。だから、そんなに痛いことはしないだ ろうと。そしたら、何かいい技術を編み出して いるだろうって生まれたのが、波動荷浸透方式 ですね。痛い思いをして内側から影響させなく ても、外側から少しずつ影響するような技術と して。やさしいインストールっていう感じですか ら。部屋でのヒロインマターもそうなんですけ ど、ヒロイン同士がもっと、ざっくばらんに話す 姿を見せる場所がほしかったっていうのもあり まして、そのためにみお風呂ってよかったんです よね。会話のためにお風呂に入る人がいても いいし、システム的によりよい効果を求めて何
Even planning the business meetings ended being pretty rough, so I focused into gradually making everyone laugh (*laughs*). And sooner or later, when I decided to make a surprise attack, I told to everyone the idea of the heroines bathing together, which was received with laughs from everyone. After we laughed together for a while, we began planning things, and one hour later, we had already the framework for this system.... (*laughs*). Well, talking a little more seriously, we established that for the world in which "2" is set, the Reyvateils are very valued, since they are recognized as precious lives, and the humans coexist with them in harmony. Therefore, a painful procedure like the Installs wouldn't be tolerated in there. In that case, we had to think out a good technique for them enhancing their powers, and ended deciding the Wave Diffusion Method as the best one. Even if it doesn't seem to cause any influence in the inside Reyvateils because of not being painful, it's a technique that does cause influence in the outside. It can be basically felt as a gentler way of Installing. We also had planned the Synchro Topics by this time, but we wanted a way in which the heroines could honestly talk to each other, while showing their true faces, so for that purpose, we made them go into the bathtub. It's okay if there are people that like performing the Dualstalls just for the conversations, as also is if there are people
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回も入る人がいてもいいと思うんです。
who prefer to do so a lot of times just to increase the effects of the baths.
設定面の"濃い"
The "Depth" of the Setting Aspect
ー作中ではよく、科学的・物理的な設定が出 てきますが、土屋さんの専門なんですか？
The game itself has a very scientific and physics-filled setting, but, is this Tsuchiya-san's field of specialty?
土屋:大学では土木専攻でした。これが役に立 ったのは、ラクシャクやパスタリアの基幹の部 分で、鉄骨の配置がこうとか、そういうのを考え るときですかねえ。波動科学とかは、もう完全 に趣味です（笑）。昔からそうなんですけど、設 定的なものが好きで、説得力のあるものが好き なんですね。「この世界でこれがここにあるのは なんでだ」と考えるのが好きなんです。もちろん、 最初から波動科学どうのっていうのを考えてるわ けじゃなくて、考えをまとめる過程で生まれてくる んです。なんで謳うと魔法になるんだろう、と いうことですね。『1』のときから、そういうこと を考えてやってるわけなんですけど、詩魔法サ ーバーっていうものを考え付いて、力に変換 するっていうロジックを作って、じゃあそもそも エネルギっーてなんだろう、って突き詰めてい ったのが波動科学ですね。
Tsuchiya: The major I did back at college was on Public Works. Because of the kind of profession I was studying, I was able to design the main parts of both Pastalia and Rakshek, and to think out how everything was going to be distributed upon the steel frame (the Rim). As for Wave Science, that came entirely from one of my hobbies (*laughs*). It has been since a long time ago, but I have always loved how setting filled where some works, and the great persuasive power that they themselves had. I also liked thinking [How are things in this world? Where? In which way they are done or they happen?]. Of course, this doesn't mean that I thought about creating Wave Science too from the outset, but it was eventually born out when I was putting all of the ideas I had in order. "In which way does the singing turn into magic?", such things were its starting point. Since the times in which we were creating "1", I began thinking seriously about it, and together with coming up with the idea of the Song Magic Servers, I also created the logic they use to turn the Songs into power, or rather, into energy, and after researching and thinking a lot, we have now Wave Science as you all know it.
ー設定好きな土屋さんが、「この設定はすごい な」と思った作品ってありますか？
Since you love so much settings, Tsuchiya-san, have you ever seen any work that has made you think [this has such an amazing setting!]?
土屋：『指輪物語』など、大好きな作品はた くさんありますが、それに加えて昔から物 理が好きなんですよ。土木に決める前は、電気 と電子どっちに行くか迷っていたんです。物理 で何が好きって、原子とか分子とか、得体の知れ ないものに魅力を感じたんです。こういうものを、 自分なりに勝手に考えるのが好きで、その延長 線上ですね。原子っていうのは、電子と陽子と 中性子でできてるって教わるわけですけど、じゃあ 陽子って何で出来ているんだろうと調べてみ ると一説では波動の集合体だという話があ って。そういうところから生まれてきたのが、たと えば想いの波動とかです。まあ、どれだけ突っ 込んで考えても、これはわたしの趣味の話にな っちゃいますね（笑）。
Tsuchiya: There are many works that I love that have these qualities, such as [The Lord of the Rings], but I also have loved physics since a very long time ago. Before I decided majoring in Public Works, I was undecided if I should study electricity or electronics. The reason why I loved physics so much was because of how some things, such as the atoms and molecules, have a pretty much unknown nature, which I felt as something fascinating. Because of that, in here I have pretty much been doing a prolongation in my own way of those wishes, isn't it? Well, though that this means that I was able to learn about things such as the electrons, protons, and neutrons, I tried researching further and coming up with theories about what formed the electrons, and with that, I came up with the idea of the wave assemblies, which was pretty much the foundation over which I continued piling other ideas, such as the waves of emotions. Well, no matter how seriously you think about it, since in the end, this a story about something that is one of my hobbies (*laughs*).
キャラクターたち
About the Characters
ーキャラクターの人気は予想どおりでしたか？ スタッフ間の人気なども教えてください。
The characters were as popular as you expected? Please, tell us about which were the most popular characters among the staff.
河内：ウチのスタッフでは、比較的クローシェが 人気が高かったかな。ただ、その頃は蛇刳がま だちゃんと発表されていない時期だったので、見 せてからだとまた違かったかもしれませんね。発 売後の評判だと、ユーザーさんの間ではココナ が結構支持されてるみたいですね。
Kawauchi: Among the staff, the most popular character, relatively speaking, was Cloche. Still, at that time we hadn't revealed Jakuri yet, but things might have changed since they saw her. After the game was released, it seems that Cocona is the character who has received the biggest support from the users, no?
土屋：あ、うちでは、女性スタッフの間でココナ が人気ありました。使用キャラクターという意味 では、クローシェを使う人が多かったなぁ。
Tsuchiya: Yes, and by the way, Cocona was very popular too among the female members of the staff. As for the way in which the characters are used in-game, it seems that a lot of people like having Cloche in their party.
ー男性キャラクター人気ってどうでしょう。
And how was the most popular male character?
河内：バンプレストではチェスターとかタルガー ナでしたね。あと、クロアの私服も一部の人間 に支持されてました（※7）。メガネのデザインは いろんなものを用意していただいて、女性スタ ッフの意見を参考に決めています。
Kawauchi: In Banpresto, these were both Chester and Targana. And furthermore, there was a group of people that also supported quite a lot Croix in his casual attire. As for using his design with the glasses, that was something that was decided upon consulting the opinion with the female staff members.
土屋：ガストではネタキャラが好きな女性社員 が多いんで、チェスターですねえ。ダサカコイ がヒットしたようです（笑）。
Tsuchiya: In Gust there were too a lot of female staff members that liked Chester as a joke character. Looks like we made a big hit with "Coolame" (*laughs*).
河内：やっぱり、鼻血がいい味を出していたんで しょうね（笑）。
Kawauchi: As I thought, the nosebleed draws a good style out from him.
ーサブキャラクターも個性たっぷりでした。
The secondary characters had a lot of personality, too.
河内：ノノちゃんは惜しいキャラでしたね。けっこ う立ってたので、もっとエピソードがあってもよか ったと思ってます。
Kawauchi: Nana was one of the best characters, no? She was given a good spot, and while I think that she could have had many more parts in the story, we still did a good job with her.
土屋：ノノっていうのは、ダイバーズセラピの側 面を見せたかったから作ったんですけど、瑠珈 とからめることで、瑠珈の日常を描きたかった 意味もあります。彼女は自分自身が最初に想 定していたより、はるかに活躍したキャラで、こ れならバストアップを用意すれば良かったな、 と後で後悔したほどでした（笑）。
Tsuchiya: About Nana, though we created her to show things from the perspective of a Dive Therapist, thanks to her interactions with Luca, we ended giving to her the role of serving as a support in showing the players how Luca's normal days were. While you might assume that she is a girl that thinks about herself more than anything, from the distance, she is a very energetic character, and while I think that like this it would have been good to prepare a bust size increase for her, we later on regretted not doing it (*laughs*).
河内：ダイブ屋ゲンさんとか、地味な役どころも 味があって、僕は気に入ってます。下町風情を 感じるんですよね、ラクシャクの脇役たち。
Kawauchi: And Dive Clerk Gen, among others, is my favorite character, despite having a very simplistic role. You can feel that you are actually in downtown when you interact with the secondary characters from Rakshek.
土屋：ラクシャクのキャラクターたちは、瑠珈の 味方であり、途中でなじる役割でもあり、という 重要な立ち位置だったので、役まわりやセリフ にはかなり気を使いました。
Tsuchiya: The characters of Rakshek are all friends of Luca, and they also have the role of rebuking the main characters about halfway in the game, and since that was such an important position, I had to be very careful with their respective positions and lines.
A Message to All the Users
河内：『アルトネリコ2』のテーマは絆であり、一 貫してこの部分を描いた作品です。今回は特に、 家族や人と人のドラマっていうキーワードで掘り 下げて絆を表現しています。キャラクターたちが それぞれで持っているドラマっていうものをぜひ、 楽しんでください。また、システム面でも、レーヴ ァテイルたちとの絆を強く感じられるように作っ てあります。プレイするときに、そういう部分を意 識してもらえると嬉しいですね。
Kawauchi: [Ar tonelico 2] has as its main themes the bonds, and they are the part that is the most consistently shown in this work. This time, we delved deeper into expressing things that have as their keywords "family drama" and "interaction drama". Please, look forward to seeing by yourself what each one of these characters have to offer in these dramas. Also, and while this is talking about the game systems, we have created them so you can feel how your bonds with the heroines are strengthened the more you advance. If you can be conscious about this when you play it, I'll be very happy.
土屋：ヒロインの描写には、すごく力を入れまし た。いい部分も悪い部分もさらけ出しています が、そういう人間の内面の部分を見たうえで、 困難を乗り越えて成長していくヒロインたちの 姿を見ていただければと思います。また、アル ポータルでもいろいろな設定を掲載しています ので、ぜひ遊びに来てください。これからも、 ユーザーさんとの一体感を大切にしていきます ので、よろしくお願いします。
Tsuchiya: We did our very best into describing and portraying the heroines. While they both display their good and bad parts, these are things that could be seen within the minds of the humans in the real world, and I think you should be able to see how the heroines overcome so many hardships in this way. Also, we will continue publishing many more things in the Ar Portal about the setting, so please, come and play in this world. From now on, we will be treasuring our sense of unity with our users more than ever, so we hope we can continue being together for a much longer time.
（取材日：2007年12月7日） (Data of the Interview: December 7th, 2007)
※7 クロアの私服 Croix's Casual Clothes
クロアの私服のメガネは、企画当初にはったものの、 初期デザインには入っていなかったという。そのデザイ ン画を見たバンプレスト公報のT嬢がツッコミを入れた ことが、現在のメガネ姿に落ちついた一要因だとか......。
The glasses that Croix wears while wearing his casual clothes was something that was planned in the initial stages of the project, but later on we didn't want to give him these when we made the first drafts of the projects. However, when Ms. T., from the Banpresto BBS saw that design, we ended setting down for the current glassed design. She could be called the primary cause of this...
河内プロデューサーの 秘蔵ラフ
Producer Kawauchi's Treasured Draft
本作のパッケージデザインは、この ラフ案をベースに生まれたもの。 製品版のパッケージでは瑠珈とク ローシェの位置が逆になっている のが最大のポイント。ちなみにサ ブタイトルの「世界に響く少女たち の創造詩」も河内氏の発案。
The current package design was created out from this preliminary draft. Its biggest difference with the final version of the package is that the positions of Luca and Cloche are inverted. By the way, the subtitle of the game, [The Song of Creation of the Girls Which Resounds Throughout the World], was also an idea of Mr. Kawauchi.